Here we go again! It’s Lisbon Mark-2 time on Friday October 2nd. Have you decided? What way will you vote? (Feel free to post anonymously). Will you vote? What are you thoughts?!

What are you voting?

View Results

Loading ... Loading ...

(L)

(For our international lovelies - sorry if you feel left out of this one! Next week, a poll on what you really think of Irish poeple or something!! Promise!)

Tags: , , , , , ,

This entry was posted on Wednesday, September 30th, 2009 at 6:47 pm and is filed under Choose Life!, What's in STUFF!. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

161 comments so far

1.  Megan
September 30th, 2009 at 7:32 pm

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes and again, yes. Definitely. We need Europe and I’d say there’s a good chance we could be asked to leave if we don’t take it.

2.  roisincurtis
September 30th, 2009 at 7:55 pm

I’m voting no, we are meant to live in a democracy after all????

3.  Gina
September 30th, 2009 at 8:02 pm

Its a NO from me mainly because the country said No and they are making us do it again. I also think its time we took a step back from europe and start looking after ourselves while we were coasting on the back of all the european money that was dished out in this country a lot of things were neglected its time to sort out our own problems and not add to them. Get the Health, Justice and School systems back in order in this Country before the flood gates are opened even wider, theres enough houses and factory buildings already we dont need the banks bailed out so them and the builders get more

4.  vanessa
September 30th, 2009 at 8:12 pm

i’m with roisin and gina on this one i’ll def be voting no if only because we already said no to this. if we had originally voted yes to this we would never have been asked to vote again. i think gina is right its time to for a little bit of looking inward and worrying more about fixing the problems we already have than creating new ones!

5.  roisincurtis
September 30th, 2009 at 8:30 pm

The lisbon treaty - Supporting Conspiracy Theorists since 2007

6.  Dimples (Martina)
September 30th, 2009 at 8:44 pm

I will be voting YES. At the moment I would trust the decisions made by Europe far more than our greedy government! Our government look out for no one but themselves, we need Europe to step in and make sure they don’t make more of a balls of the country!
Also, isn’t voting again what a democracy is all about?? Didn’t the Irish say ‘no’ the first time because we ‘wanted a better deal’ ? Well we do have a better deal now - this deal has addressed most peoples concerns regarding the first one! AND, if democracy means voting once and NEVER returning to the subject again then that means we wouldn’t have divorce right now because the subject would not have been returned to voters back in the 90’s.

7.  Sandra
September 30th, 2009 at 8:51 pm

And a no no no from me for all the reasons that gina and roisin said

8.  Gina
September 30th, 2009 at 8:55 pm

there is a huge difference between the Divorce referendum and the Lisbon treaty. Having read the “better Deal” or as I like to call it the glossed over original treaty on nice new shiny paper
I read it the first time and the second time and they dont guarantee the answers I am looking for
every politician I have asked has not given me a proper answer they cant give a definite NO on whether my sons or their sons will be called on to join this special newly named little army that will be called upon to help any other european country. They cannot guarantee the NO when I aske them they year Ireland isnt voted onto the big commitee and the rest of europe decide to bring in the higher taxes and lower wage will we have a say without our representative, one politician said he honestly couldnt say untill we were faced with that!!! at least i got an honest answer from a politician. I dont care what either side are saying I care about my family and our welfare the celtic tiger didnt do anything for me and I dont think I should be punished because Ireland got GREEDY when the europe fired money at it. I believe EVERYONE should take off the blinkers read the treaties for themselves google is there to help and then take a REAL close look at this country and then decide. ITS NO FROM ME !!

9.  roisincurtis
September 30th, 2009 at 9:16 pm

You can dress ham up but it’s still a pigs arse!
“New” Treaty or not its still the same bullshit game only now the government are playing on the current climate to convince us to vote Yes. Everywhere I look I see signs saying “Yes to jobs” does that include our farmers jobs???? I think that the government are trying to convince us that if we vote yes we will magically get out of this recession with the help of the EU. This treaty has nothing to do with the recession or the way out. It has alot to do with eroding our nutrality, promoting neuclear energy and losing up to 50% of the power we already hold within the european commission. Of course are governnment are keeping fairly quiet and doing alot of ass licking until they get a yes vote and then it will be back to normality and they will be fucking us over in the budget in December. We do not need europe to get us out of out current situation, we need our government to stop looking abroad for help and start concentrating on putting money back into education. Without education our country has no future. I for one don’t trust our government or anything that they are trying to implement. After all these are the guys who cut my wages by 15% and are looking for another 10% in December. And while we are being fucked over they are giving million euro payouts to the bigwigs in FAS. They are only after their own personal gain in this Treaty and I for one am not going to be helping them along the way!!!

10.  Megan
September 30th, 2009 at 9:43 pm

And if we vote no there is a BIG chance that we will be asked to leave the EU. The new members of the EU had to change their legislation to fit Eu standard. If we vote no we are pretty much saying we’re above that. We definitely are stronger with Europe. We still have a democracy if VOTE YES.

11.  JANICE G
September 30th, 2009 at 9:55 pm

AS SUM1 WHO DOESN’T UNDERSTAND IT, AND STILL UNDECIDED, I’M READIN EVERY POST CAREFULLY…

I’VE ALSO READ THE TREATY ONLINE (WHICH BORED THE SHIT OUTTA ME, 2 MANY BIG WORDS ETC ETC AND I’M STILL KINDA LOST…..

BUT MEGAN NO MATTER WOT WE’LL BE PART OF EUROPE, HOW CAN THEY ASK US TO LEAVE??
AND MAKE US STRONGER HOW?? IN WOT SENSE?
ASKIN GENUINELY, CAUSE I’M TORN… I CAN SEE PRO’S & CON’S ON BOTH SIDE’S OF VOTE….

12.  La Betsy
September 30th, 2009 at 10:20 pm

I am voting a big FECK OFF NO! We won’t be asked to leave; France and Luxemburg were not asked to leave! They have said we now have neutrality except…. WE DON’T! Read it carefully!

I agree that Europe will help us to get out of this recession quicker so as a short term solution it’s a good thing but hey, we had a recession in the 80’s and we got out of it, we can do it again.

Also I hate that this stupid government of ours treats us as though we are stupid little people who can’t make the right decision and are making us vote again.

The army were advised to vote yes the first time around and have no been asked to vote no. We are a democracy. It’s a disgrace that we are being forced to vote again.

13.  Gina
September 30th, 2009 at 10:20 pm

We wont be asked to leave Europe according to the LISBON treaty there will be no penalties for any country that objects. That is one of the subjects thrown in by the yes party to scare people. People are being fooled into thinking that Ireland are the only country objecting but we are not, there are 3 of us yet to agree. the other 2 countries are holding out to see what we do. The smaller countries that are like we once were (Bulgaria, Lithuania hungary, Turkey etc) have signed up straight off as they REALLY need europe and therfore will have their own version of the Celtic Tiger, the Eu will fire money at them and then they will owe a favour to Brussels
the basic picture is Brussels have big plans for europe but all the EU countries have to agree for them to be able to implement these plans. As my dear old dead dad once said you never get something for nothing in this world. The EU wont want to bail us out for nothing in return.

14.  Gina
September 30th, 2009 at 10:25 pm

not too mention our little Island can only hold so many little people on it and if there is a yes vote then we open up our country to more delightful visitors :) I have lived in Holland and it is half the size of Ireland 10 yrs ago it had 14million and was a nice, clean, friendly, safe country now it has over 17million and its not as clean not as friendly not as safe and the dutch arent very welcoming to the tourists anymore. Can we as a country handle the pressure can out health systems? school system? justice system? not to mention the social welfare systems these are the things that I’m afraid off. I have no problems with people travelling amongst countries but even we have to apple for visas to travel

15.  Gina
September 30th, 2009 at 10:26 pm

apple ??? apply oopsie

16.  Dimples (Martina)
September 30th, 2009 at 10:26 pm

I said I don’t trust the government either Roisin and I’m still voting Yes. My reasons have nothing to do with the government we have and I think they are doing a lousy job (along with everything else!) campaigning for a Yes vote.
I voted Yes last time and I am voting Yes again.
But the No campaign has a serious amount of scaremongering and to be honest, some of the things I’m hearing from their side is so far fetched it’s laughable! For example, I heard that if Lisbon gets through we will no longer be Irish citizens, we will be European citizens - I mean COME ON!!!
I just really hope the people who are voting No are doing so for their own reasons and not because of some of the tripe going around from the scaremongers.

17.  roisincurtis
September 30th, 2009 at 10:40 pm

In fairness both sides are doing the whole scaremongering bullshit but I’d hope that we are all intelligent enough to ignore that and vote for our own reasons weither on the YES or NO side :)

18.  melon
September 30th, 2009 at 10:54 pm

I’m voting yes anyway. But I am actually so sick of the whole thing. My handbag is full of fekin leaflets and im sick of people yelling at each other everyday outside the GPO. Today I was just leaning against a wall minding my own business texting away and next thing enda kenny came over and started shaking my hand and after he asked me if i was voting on friday, he said “TO IRELAND!!” and walked away. wtf.

19.  JANICE G
September 30th, 2009 at 11:01 pm

ANOTHER THING I CAN’T GET MY HEAD AROUND…..

TRUSTING/NOT TRUSTIN THE GOVERNMENT -

PEOPLE SAYIN THEY DON’T TRUST THE GOVNERMENT, THATS THE REASON THEY ARE VOTIN YES TO LISBON…
BUT YET THE GOVENMENT ARE THE ONES TELLIN US TO VOTE IT IN, SO WHY ARE YOU LISTEN TO A BUNCH OF POLITICS YOU DON’T TRUST….??

ALSO, THOSE THAT DO TRUST THE GOVERNMENT TO LOOK AFTER OUR COUNTRY, VOTIN NO TO LISBON, DESPITE THE PARTY YOU “TRUST” TELLIN YOU TO,
SAYIN “I TRUST OUR GOVERNMENT TO LOOK AFTER US”, BUT YET ARE THEY NOT MORE OR LESS TELLIN US THEY CAN’T AND THAT THEY NEED HELP FROM EUROPE….???
BUT YET VOTIN NO BCOZ THEY DON’T TRUST THE LISBON, BUT TRUST OUR GOVERNMENT, BUT THEIR THE ONES TELLIN US TO SAY YES…

I HOPE WOT I JUS WROTE IS UNDERSTANDABLE….. (MAKES SENSE IN MY HEAD HAHA)

I HAVE MY HEAD WRECKED WIT THIS SHIT…. I REALLY DON’T KNOW WOT TO DO FOR THE BETTER…….

20.  Louise
September 30th, 2009 at 11:04 pm

I’m so voting Yes, they have changed the treaty and sure we’ve had to vote on many issues twice like divorce or even the nice treaty.

Europe has given us 72billion since we joined and yet we’re still fucked coz we have a crap government who cant manage our money properly

21.  Gina
September 30th, 2009 at 11:08 pm

Look some great things have come out of Europe, we all have to by law have a downstairs toilet in new houses, all the doors on these houses have to be wide enough for wheelchair users, you must have a 3 bedroom house if you have 2 children of different sexes. I’m sure there were loads of other good things too but at the minute all I can see is the bad stuff I’m not quoting lies I’m quoting what I have read for myself. Now here is something for you all to chew on and maybe we can see through the lies. Replace the Lisbon treaty with the Catholic church, they once ruled over this country with their laws they wanted us never to divorce and never to be allowed abortion the people fought and won some of the battles and comprimised also, the Catholic church promised us Loads of Miracles and Joy………….what really happened well unfortunately some of us got SCREWED by the representitives of the catholic church. The Lisbon treaty is only a representation of some things in Europe NOT ALL. We dont HAVE to accept everything that is put infront of us. we compromised and signed the Nice treaty why do they have to push us with Lisbon.

22.  becky
September 30th, 2009 at 11:09 pm

im voting no, for the reasons mentioned above… I also think the government have some neck asking us to go again because they didnt get the result they liked?

23.  Gina
September 30th, 2009 at 11:13 pm

LOUISE the government arent the only people crap with money where is all the miney from the sales of houses?? We are in a recession because the Irish got greedy. People sold houses that they bought for 33,000 for as much as 280,000 then got bigger houses and extra cars and wider tellies and borrowed borrowed borrowed and that is what is wrong now it has nothing to do with EUROPE its the greed they ALL over spent from the Government down to even the people on the dole and now they want EUROPE to help out with the BIG RECESSION but it will cost us eventually. Irish People blame everyone else but themselves it is always someone else. Half the people that cant pay back mortgages wont get rid of their 09, 08 etc cars they wont go back and get themselves out of the shit they want others to do it for them

24.  Caroline
September 30th, 2009 at 11:15 pm

I wont be here, cant vote, Im devastated, I say YES to Europe, we need their goodwill, and their input bigtime!! France, Germany and UK are all on their way out of the downturn, I for one, would appreciate their input in our situation a LOT more than those ejeets in the Dail.

25.  roisincurtis
September 30th, 2009 at 11:37 pm

I’m gonna have to take my hat off and applaud the government. Their propaganda is obviously working. The YES voters are being fooled into thinking Europe is the only way out of this Recession.
This Treaty has got nothing to do with the Recession. The YES campaigners are playing on the big R to get people on side. As Gina said, we got ourselves into this mess so it is up to us to get out of it. Voting YES isn’t going to get it happening any sooner. Just wait til December, thats when all the fun will begin with water rates, FURTHER pay cuts, tax on milage etc…
The Recession and the Lisbon Treaty are 2 very seperate things and should be treated as such. If u are voting YES because u think it will create more jobs then u are falling for the bullshit that the government are shoveling out by the wheelbarrow full. Why are they so focused on what it won’t change?? Because that way it keeps people from concentrating on what it will change. Our government although cowboys, are very smart. They like turning the people of Ireland against each other (Yes vs No, public sector vs Private sector) because while we are at each others throats we aren’t focusing on them.

26.  Dimples (Martina)
September 30th, 2009 at 11:43 pm

Totally agree Caroline and totally agree with Louise.
I think I understand the point your getting at Janice. I don’t trust the government and I am voting yes. But the fact that the government are pushing for yes has nothing to do with my decision. I am not voting yes because they are telling me to! It would be very foolish to vote based on that alone. I’m voting Yes because the result will give Europe more control and I trust Europe much much more than I trust our government!! See? We are much stronger with Europe. Hope that makes sense!

27.  Dave
September 30th, 2009 at 11:50 pm

PLEASE VOTE YES TOMORROW! Look at who’s telling you to vote no.. Sinn Fein, Coir, Declan Ganley and Jim Corr. Now look who is telling you to vote yes. Pretty much everyone else. So you don’t trust the government.. Fine. Trust Fine Gael, Labour, SIPTU, IBEC, the Catholic Church (if you’re religious), the SFA, the IFA, Seamus Heaney, U2’s the Edge and Robbie Keane!!! The reason we’re being asked to vote again are because the No camapign won the last referendum on a campaign of lies. The guarantees we had to seek were ridiculous as the the issues in question were never under threat but we got the guarantees anyway. There won’t be forced abortions and conscritption. There was never any threat of that. It was all lies. Just like the threat of e1.84 minimum wage is an absolute lie. VOTE YES TOMORROW!!! It could mean the difference between are country being moderatley fucked and completely fucked.

28.  Gina
September 30th, 2009 at 11:51 pm

If your going to vote on Friday Just make sure YOU know why YOU are voting, Vote what ever way YOU want, read all you can for both sides and then read for yourselves. Ireland as a country has been bult on many a lie but as we progress as people we start to see for ourselves and stand up for ourselves. I’m doing what I think is best for myself and my children until they are old enough to decide for themselves. Just remember the Lisbon treaty has nothing to do with lifting recessions or losing our identity its about making a bigger stronger Europe that we will have a smaller voice in thats all. Like everything it has Pros and cons. If your confused look at it like this Europe is a factory and the managing directors has decide to call you all to vote on wether you want to upgrade the canteen food which will cost more with less cooks. If you think the canteen food is fine then vote NO if you want fancier versions of the same food at a higher cost vote yes. sometimes Unions dont like the what the managing directors have decided and they call strikes and thats kind of what Ireland did on the last vote and now they have come back to the table with a new menu same food nicer garnish, that should be as clear as mud :)

29.  Gina
September 30th, 2009 at 11:56 pm

Dave what makes you think the country will be fucked exactly

30.  Caroline
October 1st, 2009 at 12:03 am

Declan Ganley is reason enough to vote yes IMO :)

31.  roisincurtis
October 1st, 2009 at 12:04 am

Hey Dave ur list of people to trust has made me even more determined to vote NO ha ha! It was U2s the edge that threw it for me LOL :)

32.  Sandra
October 1st, 2009 at 12:08 am

or robbie keane for that matter

33.  Gina
October 1st, 2009 at 12:10 am

some of us are voting because we have read the thing for ourselves and can make up our own minds and dont need to be swayed by the rich and famous, religous and twats on either side. Robbie Keane mmmm he will get to further his career playing for any European country, the edge is trying to outdo Bono on a crusade therefore furthering his career, the catholic church well they just love screwing the innocent. Declan Ganley came back hey so what so did the treaty, and you sure as hell cant accuse Jim Corr of trying to further his career everyone now thinks he is a fruit cake. PEOPLE THINK FOR YOURSELVES :D I do can you??

34.  Aoife
October 1st, 2009 at 12:31 am

I obviously can’t vote, but if I could I’d vote yes without a shadow of a doubt.

Voting no because they’re asking us to vote again is not the best reason to vote no, imo. It’s neither undemocratic nor unconstitutional to ask us to vote again (even if it was the *exact* same document, which it isn’t…) so the Government aren’t actually wrong in asking for a second referendum (Someone actually took a case challenging it… The Courts said it’s perfectly okay…). And as Martina said, they Government took into account why there was a no vote, and amended things accordingly. It IS democratic.

I’ve heard a couple of people say that they’re voting no because they don’t understand it. I’d say the same thing to someone voting yes but not understanding it… If you can’t make an informed vote, you’re better off not voting (That’s not a dig at you Janice! You’re clearly making it your business to make an informed decision :))

As far as I know, even if we vote no, they can’t kick us out, but Europe is changing and moving on, and we either have to move with it, or we’ll all go down (as in, Europe as a whole). I don’t believe for one second that Lisbon is the answer to the recession (I mean, c’mon, they’ve been drafting this for over 8 years… There was no recession when it first started…) but I do believe it will help more than leaving the situation as it is. I also trust Europe more than I trust our own Government, and while you might be “giving them what they want” or whatever, by voting yes, ultimately, Ireland as a whole will benefit, and the Government, as individual people, don’t really stand to personally gain from it.

Given the out and out lies the No side have been shouting around, and considering the people behind the No side, it would make me very wary of voting No. I don’t think either side are anyway innocent or have a perfect campaign, but I do think the No side come out far worse.

As a small island, which depends very much on Europe (well, the UK, in particular..), I do think it’s important for us that we remain a strong identity in Europe, and voting No is, no matter what the law technically says, going to alienate us somewhat. They can’t kick us out, but they can make us somewhat irrelevant (by means of effectively ganging up on us, to do things their way, if that makes sense?).

This hasn’t been a very coherent argument (I’m tired, and sick - arguments about referendums I can’t vote in aren’t at the forefront of my mind :P), but basically, I’d vote yes.

35.  Aoife
October 1st, 2009 at 12:40 am

Also, I kind of love that sandcastle poster! :lol:

36.  Gina
October 1st, 2009 at 12:45 am

Aoife good woman shame you cant vote you are quite informed :D
One little flaw in your comment Ireland depends more on the USA. 8 yrs ago before they started to organise the Plan for Europe, Ireland was ultimately funded by america If any of you can remember the signs on the roads telling us these roads are funded by the international fund for Ireland (IFI) then the plan for europe came about now these have beed replaced with the signs about european funding. Now Voting YES or NO isnt going to make much difference to us little fish in the big pond we will just be a piece in a bigger picture. I have emailed several people about our nations neutrality and its is questionable the Lisbon treaty wont affect our neutrality NOW but in say 10yrs time the powers that be decide they need help from the irish forces then who ever is on the council can call for a vote and if that is the year that Ireland is not represented on the council then that is the year we ARE NOT guaranteed the outcome will be for our nuetrality and that is what scares me. we will only have a representative every few years providing we get voted on by all the the other countries there is no guarantee what will happen in the future because as far as I know NO ONE in Brussels can see that far ahead so untill then

“voting No is, no matter what the law technically says, going to alienate us somewhat. They can’t kick us out, but they can make us somewhat irrelevant (by means of effectively ganging up on us, to do things their way, if that makes sense?).”
well that can also happen if we vote yes the bigger voices WILL ALWAYS HAVE THE SAY

37.  roisincurtis
October 1st, 2009 at 12:51 am

Gina fair play to u, u have obviously read this treaty back to front from the sounds of things. The poor kids must be starving this weeks as u lie back with the feet up LOL. I must say from reading all of the comments above u seem to me to be the only one who is basing ur opinion solely on what YOU have read :) (I’m including myself in that).

38.  Gina
October 1st, 2009 at 12:57 am

I always like to suss things out for myself and my children If I think ANYTHING is a bad idea then I research it and nothing I have researched has made me secure in the fact that sometimes when Ireland is not represented we wont have a loud enough voice. This plan has a few flaws that I dont like.

39.  Aoife
October 1st, 2009 at 1:21 am

Gina, are we still depending on America? I honestly would have thought, even if we were dependent on them before, being part of the EU would cancel that out, somewhat? (As in, America wouldn’t be all that happy about funding us, and whatever…)

I was actually originally more referring to trade as well as general funding, but it’s somewhat besides the point! :) (A wee little tangent, in the middle of my argument, if you will :)!

40.  Gina
October 1st, 2009 at 9:04 am

There was an “alleged” deal made, They help us with loans and we let them build companies over here tax free for so many years. This has also a lot to do with the recession as the time passed they started to pull their companies out of Ireland. I myself travelled to Canada on a wider horizons business course funded by the IFI in 1994 Others travelled to Pittsburgh. We owe a LOT of Money as a country and signing the Lisbon treaty will allow us to borrow more, which is more scarey in my little eyes! These are all just my thoughts on the whole thing I may wrong I may be right but no one knows and it wont be visible for a few years exactly what this vote will lead us into.

41.  Tabby
October 1st, 2009 at 9:19 am

All this horse shit about being asked to vote again, seriously it’s straight out of the mouths of the no campaigners! You ‘free thinkers’ don’t even realise the influence it’s had on you! So you think a country should only ever vote once on anything? So, for example, if there were referenda in a certain country in 1960 about divorce, abortion or gay marriage, the people of that country are tied to their decisions on that for ever more? Times change! Of course being asked to vote isn’t undemocratic! The fact is that the majority of people admitted that last time around they either voted no because they didn’t understand the treaty or because of things like neutrality and abortion. These things haven’t been changed per se, they’ve just been clarified! There never was a threat!! It’s pure scaremongering! Also, keeping our commissioner was a major point for many, and we’re keeping it now. So for many, their doubts have been alleviated. But of course if you still don’t think it’s something that’s right for our country, then you still have the right to vote no! So it’s completely democratic! No question about it….

42.  Tabby
October 1st, 2009 at 9:19 am

As for some of the things people have said……
Vanessa: “I think gina is right its time to for a little bit of looking inward and worrying more about fixing the problems we already have than creating new ones!”
What are these new supposed problems you think we’ll be creating by voting yes? Do you even know?!

Gina: “Having read the “better Deal” or as I like to call it the glossed over original treaty on nice new shiny paper. I read it the first time and the second time and they dont guarantee the answers I am looking for”
Then vote no! But referring to it as ‘glossed over’ is nonsense. It’s pretty much the same treaty, they’re not trying to say they’ve changed an entire EU treaty to suit you and a few other misinformed Irish people. Irish people had concerns about certain things that they never needed to be worried about. They have given us guarantees about these things and were happy to do so because it was never an issue in the first place. That’s ‘better’ because it puts people minds at ease. Those people can now vote yes with confidence. People who just don’t like the whole thing can vote no with confidence. It’s kinda the idea you see??!!

43.  Tabby
October 1st, 2009 at 9:20 am

Gina: “They cannot guarantee the NO when I aske them they year Ireland isnt voted onto the big commitee and the rest of europe decide to bring in the higher taxes and lower wage will we have a say without our representative, one politician said he honestly couldnt say untill we were faced with that!!!”
Gina things like the taxation rates and the level of pay are what make a country’s economy work as I’m sure you know. What makes you think that an Irish government will make better decisions about that than Europe? Have you got so much faith in the Irish government that you think their decisions will always be better for us? I fail to see why!! You also talk about Ireland being “greedy”. Greedy is not wanting to pay decent tax rates and then expecting us to “Get the Health, Justice and School systems back in order in this Country”. With what exactly?! Has it never occurred to you that if we pay higher tax we might have better systems??!! It’s clear to me that the European countries that pay higher taxes have better infrastructure, health systems and education. And that’s not an opinion, it’s a fact.

Roisin: “the government are playing on the current climate to convince us to vote Yes.”
I know you’ve said that you realize that both sides are scaremongering but as Dave said, the government are not the only people trying to convince you to vote yes! And I know a lot of you have said that your decision is not based on your feelings about the current government but I do think it’s worth mentioning for the record that by the time the Lisbon treaty has any real effect, we’ll ore than likely have a new government (please God!) But, if the naysayers have their way, we will have f*cked up our position in Europe by then! Where will that get us?! Anyone who thinks voting no is one in the eye for Cowen and Co. needs a good shaking! You talk about “losing up to 50% of the power we already hold within the european commission.” So let’s effectively get rid of it completely? Great idea!

44.  Tabby
October 1st, 2009 at 9:21 am

Gina: “The smaller countries that are like we once were (Bulgaria, Lithuania hungary, Turkey etc) have signed up straight off as they REALLY need europe and therfore will have their own version of the Celtic Tiger, the Eu will fire money at them and then they will owe a favour to Brussels”
I’ve never heard such tripe! If you think it was EU money that caused the Celtic Tiger Boom then you really don’t know what you’re talking about! And the boom wasn’t the problem here! It was how the extra money was dealt with! The government, banks and greed of the nouveau riche caused the collapse of the economy. Not a sudden influx of wealth from the EU.

“not too mention our little Island can only hold so many little people on it and if there is a yes vote then we open up our country to more delightful visitors”
This is both xenophobic and narrow-minded. A little knowledge really is a dangerous thing. You talk about ‘Europe’ like they’re this foreign super-power trying to take over the world. We live in Europe!! We’re part of Europe! We’re European! You’re fighting against what might actually be good for you because it interferes with your romantic notion of Ireland. Have you looked around you lately? We’re not exactly in great shape! I’m not suggesting that signing the Lisbon treaty will cure everything, I’m just confused as to why you’re so scared to give ‘power’ to Europe when the power here often lies with people that none of us have any sort of faith in! What makes you think we’re better off?!

45.  Tabby
October 1st, 2009 at 9:21 am

“Replace the Lisbon treaty with the Catholic church, they once ruled over this country with their laws they wanted us never to divorce and never to be allowed abortion the people fought and won some of the battles and comprimised also, the Catholic church promised us Loads of Miracles and Joy………….what really happened well unfortunately some of us got SCREWED by the representitives of the catholic church.”
I’m sorry, but I’m genuinely baffled as to what on earth you’re going on about? There is no comparison between he Catholic Church and Europe! The ‘no’ campaign could do with signing you up. You’re great at insinuating problems that don’t actually exist!!

“If your confused look at it like this Europe is a factory and the managing directors has decide to call you all to vote on wether you want to upgrade the canteen food which will cost more with less cooks. If you think the canteen food is fine then vote NO if you want fancier versions of the same food at a higher cost vote yes. sometimes Unions dont like the what the managing directors have decided and they call strikes and thats kind of what Ireland did on the last vote and now they have come back to the table with a new menu same food nicer garnish”
Please, anyone reading this that hasn’t decided whether to vote yes or no, ignore this! It’s the woolliest, irrelevant analogy I’ve ever read. It’s both inaccurate and insulting. Gina, you seem to think you’re sticking it to the man by voting no! You have some misguided bra-burning, fight for your right to party, children of the revolution, girl power, Tiocfaidh ar la bullshit going on and it’s all utter balls!!!

46.  Tabby
October 1st, 2009 at 9:22 am

And finally…..
As for neutrality, can we just get this straight for once and for all……….
“States would be obliged to aid another member state which is the victim of armed aggression, in accordance with the UN Charter, BUT THIS MUST NOT COMPROMISE THE CHARACTER OF CERTAIN STATES. IT WOULD BE A MATTER FOR EACH MEMBER STATE TO DECIDE WHETHER TO PARTICIPATE IN THE EUROPEAN DEFENCE AGENCY (EDA), and to decide on its own level of military spending”.
Is that not clear enough??!!

47.  Gina
October 1st, 2009 at 9:39 am

Thanks Tabby your opinions I welcome but please dont preach AT me I have read the treaty I know what I read it has a lot of buts in it as does a lot of things. The point you are also missing is that this is just a suggestion by europe and yes we are europeans, yes we move with the time, yes we do have to vote on things a few times to get a good compromise for everyone, What I am saying is based on my own feelings not the no side or the yes side. As I said before CAN YOU GUARANTEE THAT MY SONS OR THEIR SONS WILL NOT BE CALLED INTO AN ARMED FORCE AGAINST THEIR OWN WILL. untill my children can vote for their own futures it is my job to look after them. I’m far from a xenophobe thanks to people travelling the world i have a great husband and wonderful children and I’m not narrow minded. Telling me I’m being influenced by the NO campaign is very narrow minded of you, can I not look into things for myself ??? Then Boom was indeed the problem here why is it when people say it like it is how we got greedy others get defensive the truth is we borrowed too much money from the highest powers right down to the lowest earners we are ALL in debt. BLame the banks if you want but I never borrow money I cant pay back thats why Both my husband and I didnt get a mortgage worth 5times his wage because we knew we would struggle who else can say the same ??? We still have our 95 car and as long as it works I we wont replace it. I want to enjoy my life not wake up everyday stressed and worried about how I’m going to feed my kids and survive till next payday but thanks to the GREED in the BOOM there are not many people in Ireland like me.
Tabby dont get to stressed after all stress is a big killer and your health is your wealth. You vote whatever way you feel right and I will vote whatever I feel is right. Whatever anyone thinks I think a lot worry about the fact that Mr. Ryanair has jumped on the bandwagon of the yes side and WE ALL know what he wants. If having on your campaign posters A YES VOTE WILL P*SS OFF SINFEIN, JOE HIGGINS & DECLAN GANLEY is a good step towards the lisbon treaty then I think i know my path

48.  Jack
October 1st, 2009 at 9:41 am

Well said Tabby
Gina - it amazes me that you claim to have read the Treaty when everything you’ve said here has been some demented rambling about made up EU laws that if people have 2 kids they have to have a 3 bedroom house to ridiculous analogies with office catering. What’s depressing is your smugness about your understanding and your willingness to lecture to other people who aren’t as “informed” as you about what we’re voting on.

49.  Amy
October 1st, 2009 at 9:57 am

If I was back living in Ireland (gutted I’m not around to vote) but I would be voting a definite YES!! ppl only voted NO last time because no one understood it and ppl dont like change so immediatley turned against it. I do know that it would be a good decision for Ireland as it needs all the help it can get right now!

50.  JANICE G
October 1st, 2009 at 10:10 am

AS A NEUTRAL STILL, I’VE GOT TO QUESTION ALOT OF WOT’S BEEN SAID HERE….

YEAH WE NEED HELP RIGHT NOW, BUT THATS IT, JUST NOW - WUD BE HANDY IF ONLY A SHORT TERM SOLUTION, BUT IT’S NOT, WE VOTE THIS IN, THEN THATS IT…

OR DOES ANY-ONE KNOW IF WE VOTED IT IN, CAN WE VOTE IT OUT AGAIN IN A COUPLE OF YEARS, OR IS THAT IT LIKE, WOT EVER WE VOTE WE’RE STUCK WIT????

I DON’T SEE HOW HOW WE CAN TRUST OUR GOVERNMENT, WEN 1ST TIME ROUND COWAN DIDN’T READ IT, HE HAD US, HIS COUNTRY VOTE ON A TREATY HE DIDN’T READ PROP.
BUT THIS TIME ROUND WE SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE THAT HE HAS US IN GOOD INTENTIONS….

I’M SO FRICKEN CONFUSED IT’S GONE BEYOND FUNNY…
I WUD LAUGH IT OFF SAYIN I DON’T GET IT, BUT TIME HAS COME AROUND SO FAST, IT’S 2MORO AAGGHHH!!
AND I’M STILL UNDECIDED…

BUT ALSO TO AOFIE, I DON’T REALLY WANNA SPOIL MY VOTE, BCOZ I KNOW VERY WELL I’LL BE THE ONE COMPLAININ MY ASS OFF IN A COUPLE OF YR’S IF THE COUTRY IS IN SHIT (WHICHEVER WAY THE VOTE GOES) I’LL BE THERE GIVIN OUT WHEN I DID NOTHING BOUT IT WEN I HAD THE CHANCE….
ALSO, I FIND IT A BIT SELFISH AND IRRESPONSIBLY OF ME WEN THE LIKES OF YOURSELF WANT TO VOTE BUT CAN’T, ALSO WE WERE GIVIN A VOICE AND I SHUD USE IT, LIKE PEOPLE VOTE FOR ME TO BE IN THIS POSTION, AND I BET IF I WASN’T ALLOWED VOTE I’D BE COMPLAININ BOUT THAT….. (IF YE GET ME)

51.  Gina
October 1st, 2009 at 10:18 am

Jack Have you looked this up before you said it was demented rambling why dont you ring your local authority and ask them when they are giving out their social housing are they allowed give a 2 bedroom house to a family with a boy and girl child and while your on the phone could you also ask them why are all the houses being built with downstairs WC and wider doors??
Oh and here is one of the articles that I have read and even I can see the well disguised buts in this article

http://www.lisbontreaty.ie/guide/lisbon-treaty-guide-english.pdf

Why do people feel the need to reduce a debate to name calling when they are trying to show their points? Are you really that stressed and angry ?? maybe you should relax and take it a bit easier or you may not be around to enjoy what ever the out come will be maybe you should pop into your doctor and get your bloodpressure checked :D

52.  Tabby
October 1st, 2009 at 10:28 am

“Thanks Tabby your opinions I welcome but please dont preach AT me I have read the treaty I know what I read it has a lot of buts in it as does a lot of things.”
I left 6 comments on this post – you’ve left 14. Who’s the one preaching here?! And we’ll have to agree to disagree on which one of us is actually informed enough to preach.
“The point you are also missing is that this is just a suggestion by europe and yes we are europeans, yes we move with the time, yes we do have to vote on things a few times to get a good compromise for everyone, What I am saying is based on my own feelings not the no side or the yes side.”
I’m sorry, what’s the point that I’m missing?! Of course it’s a suggestion, that’s why we’re voting! I would have said that was beyond obvious!
“As I said before CAN YOU GUARANTEE THAT MY SONS OR THEIR SONS WILL NOT BE CALLED INTO AN ARMED FORCE AGAINST THEIR OWN WILL. untill my children can vote for their own futures it is my job to look after them.”
Seriously…..you say you’ve read it. Did you not read this part??!!….. I’ve even put it in your CAPS language! “States would be obliged to aid another member state which is the victim of armed aggression, in accordance with the UN Charter, BUT THIS MUST NOT COMPROMISE THE CHARACTER OF CERTAIN STATES. IT WOULD BE A MATTER FOR EACH MEMBER STATE TO DECIDE WHETHER TO PARTICIPATE IN THE EUROPEAN DEFENCE AGENCY (EDA), and to decide on its own level of military spending”.

53.  Tabby
October 1st, 2009 at 10:29 am

“I’m far from a xenophobe thanks to people travelling the world i have a great husband and wonderful children and I’m not narrow minded.”
Well then I suggest for your own sake that you refrain from calling immigrants ‘lovely visitors’ in a passive aggressive manner and going on to say how much damage they will cause, because you sound more than a little bothered by the situation.
“Telling me I’m being influenced by the NO campaign is very narrow minded of you, can I not look into things for myself ???”
You can of course, but I would seriously question some of the ‘facts’ you think you have uncovered. They’re simply not accurate Gina. This isn’t me being narrow-minded. It’s me knowing the facts and you talking about canteens!
“Then Boom was indeed the problem here why is it when people say it like it is how we got greedy others get defensive”
I’m assuming that’s not aimed at me. I couldn’t agree more about the damage people’s greed did to this country.

”Tabby dont get to stressed after all stress is a big killer and your health is your wealth. You vote whatever way you feel right and I will vote whatever I feel is right.”
This is a fairly weak little attempt to undermine my argument. It says it all really.
“Whatever anyone thinks I think a lot worry about the fact that Mr. Ryanair has jumped on the bandwagon of the yes side and WE ALL know what he wants. If having on your campaign posters A YES VOTE WILL P*SS OFF SINFEIN, JOE HIGGINS & DECLAN GANLEY is a good step towards the lisbon treaty then I think i know my path”
Ramble ramble, irrelevant ramble……

54.  Stylebitch (B)
October 1st, 2009 at 10:32 am

I would like everyone who’s voting ‘No’ or ‘Yes’ to do me ONE favour : Tell me why you’re voting no with just THREE points, using ten words or less in each point.

Consider it homework! ;)

(It may be of help to those still undecided, and to be honest, I’m curious to see if the ‘No’ campaign could be presented in such a way!)

55.  JANICE G
October 1st, 2009 at 10:39 am

OOO VERY GOOD MISS B

NOW WHY DIDN’T I THINK OF PUTTIN IT INTO SIMPLES TERMS LIKE THAT :)

56.  Jack
October 1st, 2009 at 10:40 am

I’ve read the Treaty and can’t believe that you have because your claims bear no resemblance to anything in it - the conscription argument just couldn’t be considered by anyone who’s read the provisions on, for example, a State’s choice to partake in the EDA or the continuation of our triple lock use of the Army. I might as well say “show me the provision that says Portugese children won’t be entitled to eat my little fingers”. You say “think for yourselves” but you have to “think for yourself” in considering the Treaty presented to you rather than just thinking of things in your own head - particularly when you’re presenting yourself as some kind of authority on it.
The right to vote comes with a responsibility to inform yourself about the issues - a responsibility to yourself but also to your fellow citizens. At the very least, someone who feels themselves incapable of understanding or reading up on the Treaty should, as Dave said, look to the expertise of the people urging a Yes vote. Ganley will in years to come be shown to be someone who sold his country down the river for some unknown purpose/

57.  Gina
October 1st, 2009 at 10:44 am

Im talking in a language some people can understand sorry if its confusing you. You dont have to get so wound up by me I’m just a small fish in a ver very big pond. I try to use words that wont baffle joe soap, I like to use images thats people can picture. Im not that idiotic to beleive it is really as simple as a canteen. There are easier ways to describe some things, for eg. we have looked into the development and it would be demographically sound to build our store there. Now im not ignorant but i do know a lot of people wont understand that statement so in my own irrelevent ramblings “as you so delicately put it” that statement means if we build in that area we will make a mint, in laymans terms, not everyone understands, politicians, doctors, lawyer and the business worlds terminology. I’m happy and confident about my decision as it is mine. Slag me off if you must I dont mind i can take it, if it makes you feel better about your cause then im so happy to be of service to you. I just hope your not proving other peoples points about the bully tactics of the yes side

58.  Susan O'M
October 1st, 2009 at 10:47 am

I’d like to see everyone’s 3 points too….

I really don’t think the No campaigners will manage it though.

Enjoying the comments so far too!

59.  Gina
October 1st, 2009 at 10:53 am

1. I dont believe Ireland will keep its Neutrality
2. I’m afraid nuclear energy will be forced upon us

3. Our government are focussed on europe and should be focused here

Sorry i used an extra word on the 3rd point

60.  Dave
October 1st, 2009 at 10:57 am

Yes To Lisbon…

1. It will Strengthen the EU’s capacity to bring greater economic prosperity, which we will share in.

2. Equip the EU to better deal with global warming; energy security and cross border crime.

3. Lisbon enhances the role of the Dail and the Seanad in determining new EU Law.

Not quite ten words. Sorry.

61.  Jack
October 1st, 2009 at 11:01 am

1. Your belief appears to be based on nothing and yet you’re determined to stick to it - what can you say to that?
2. Lisbon changes nothing on nuclear power http://www.europeanmovement.ie/index.php?id=8935
In any case I’m pretty sure your concerns about nuclear power are based on nothing but your “gut feeling”, when we have a UK interconnector we’ll be using their nuclear power anyway, nuclear power has killed far less people in its lifetime than coal does every year etc etc - I could go on and on but you don’t seem to care for facts.
3. Why are the two mutually exclusive? The EU will be central to the Government’s sorting out of the country.
In response to your last post I can’t imagine that anyone couldn’t understand Tabby’s responses to what you’ve said - I just think you haven’t liked them.

62.  AndyC
October 1st, 2009 at 11:12 am

Ummm, I’m not sure how I’m voting yet but I really only popped in because I saw the long list of people here and thought you were selling drugs…

63.  charlotte
October 1st, 2009 at 11:13 am

Completely completely disagree with Gina!!!! ‘Its time we stopped coasting along on European money’

Can I say one thing?? Without the EU we would more than likely be bankrupt at this moment, the country would be ruined. WE would be Iceland part 2. The EU saved us, there is NOTHING we can really do without the help of the EU to save us.

Secondly what a silly idea to vote no the second time just because you did it the first?! We’re having a second referendum because the first time there was a shedload of misapprehensions and a lot of shite was made up about conscription and 1.80 minimum wages which people fell for…Every other country in the EU has passed it through. Grr… we’re all screwed if we vote no..

64.  Gina
October 1st, 2009 at 11:16 am

Look my beliefs are that I dont think its as clear cut as it says in the treaty I know its states that we wont be asked to get involved in helping other countries unless we all agree. I want to know what happens when we dont agree what will happen then will we be punished will be shunned.
What is wrong with me being worried ?? Im using my right to vote for me and my family what is wrong with that. you dont have to jump on me tabby when i said stop preaching AT me I meant AT not stop preaching altogether this is a forum we get to voice our opinions. Im not on a yes or no side im on my side for me so lets call it the selfish side if you must but my job in this world is to look after me and work my way out to the world. Dont make a personal battle on me there are enough people out there blaming each other. If I suffer for my actions then so be it I will deal with it when and if it happens I didnt jump on the back of the Celtic tiger I wont be jumping if the country votes yes. Hopefully what ever the outcome on Friday will help my children that is all I want

65.  charlotte
October 1st, 2009 at 11:16 am

Theres actually a load of bollocks still going around STILL. Id suggest people actually read the lisbon treaty before voting no and quite literally fucking the country over..!!!!!!

66.  Gina
October 1st, 2009 at 11:17 am

Charlotte not every other country has passed it 24 out of 27 have, missinformation mmm

67.  charlotte
October 1st, 2009 at 11:18 am

Gina your children wont be helped by voting No. You can thank the EU that we aren’t bankrupt at this very moment. You should also look at the bankrupt bust Iceland who are desperately and hurridly creating their application to get into the EU..and draw your conclusions from it!!

68.  charlotte
October 1st, 2009 at 11:20 am

Ok, my mistake 24 out of 27 have passed it.

69.  Gina
October 1st, 2009 at 11:22 am

I have to leave this lovely debate and go do some work :)
Thanks everyone its made good reading and some great issues where covered, at least we all have a better idea of things this time round. Stay true to yourselves stick to your beliefs and always know that your choice in life has gotten you to where you are now :D talk to you all laters x

70.  Tabby
October 1st, 2009 at 11:26 am

“I dont think its as clear cut as it says in the treaty” ….seriously Gina?! So you’re OK with what it says in the treaty but you’re afraid they might ignore it and do something else? What? We’re voting on the Treaty, nothing else. Things maybe weren’t as ‘clear cut’ as we’d have liked last time. They are now!
“I want to know what happens when we dont agree what will happen then will we be punished will be shunned.”
You’re not worried about us being punished and shunned for voting no to the whole treaty when but you’re worried about us being punished and shunned for not wanting to fight someone else’s war? It just makes no sense!
You have the right to be worried of course, we’re all worried about the state of the world and our country. But that’s why we ask the questions and it’s why you’ve asked the questions. Clearly you haven’t been satisfied and your concerns are still in place so if you really feel the need to vote no, knock yourself out. But I personally feel that your fears are unfounded and genuinely can’t understand why you’re still worried about the things that you are when it’s all written in black and white.
I also agree with Jack on the nuclear power thing. That’s happening, regardless of this vote. It’s progress and is a whole other days debate but certainly shouldn’t be used as a reason to disrupt our relationship with Europe.
As for all that personal nonsense, I’m not even going to respond to it. You obviously just don’t like what you’re hearing.

71.  Dave
October 1st, 2009 at 11:28 am

Gina, if you are worried about your kids and their future.. Lisbon is positive on human rights, social and workers rights, women’s right, climate change, respects Ireland’s neutrality, won’t force nuclear energy on us and if you’re still not convinced it also provides properly the protocols if a country wishes to withdraw from the EU!

72.  Jack
October 1st, 2009 at 11:28 am

“Stay true to yourselves stick to your beliefs and always know that your choice in life has gotten you to where you are now” - great point Gina - if only life was a Leona Lewis song - how do you explain that to someone with a terminal illness? Bad choices?

73.  Tabby
October 1st, 2009 at 11:33 am

1. Our standing in Europe is CRUCIAL and yes it will MASSIVELY assist our recovery, whether you think this is government spin or not.

2. We have been given legally binding assurances and a PERMANENT commissioner.

3. We won’t lose our neutrality, in fact if we vote no it is far more likely we will lose things like the Charter of Fundamental Rights and other important advances.

74.  Roisinanna
October 1st, 2009 at 11:34 am

Yes
1. Declan Ganly is a big mad head
2. I don’t take my instruction from big mad heads
3. It’s inevitable and i can’t face another campaign as I have enough shite coming through my post box as it is..

75.  Susan O'M
October 1st, 2009 at 11:38 am

Roisin…you just made me vote yes. Jim Corr is also a mad head and he says no. As does Sinn Fein…something in the air doesn’t smell right - it smells of MADNESS!

76.  Dave
October 1st, 2009 at 11:44 am

Jim Corr is madder than a wet hen! Vote Yes!

77.  JANICE G
October 1st, 2009 at 11:48 am

JIMM CORR IS SAYIN VOTE NO - SO VOTE YES

MICHAEL O’LEARY IS SAYIN VOTE YES - SO VOTE NO

78.  Stylebitch (B)
October 1st, 2009 at 11:49 am

So far we’ve had one ‘no’ campaing broken down into 3 points primarily based on fears and feelings and perceptions of the Treaty and a few ‘yes’ votes based on facts from the Treaty…

(especially the fact that Declan Ganley is a ‘big mad head’…that should be added to it somehow.)

I’m sorry but I think that pretty much sums it up for me!

79.  emmagination
October 1st, 2009 at 11:53 am

I was leaning towards a yes vote anyway and while Dave and Aoife’s posts made me more certain that this is how I want to vote, Roisinanna is the Queen winner of the debate! Vote yes!

80.  Roisinanna
October 1st, 2009 at 12:07 pm

thanks Emma, I was on the debating team in school and I think that shows.. I regularly used ‘You’re a big mad head’ in my arguments and my opponents generally found it difficult to refute.

81.  J Bloggs
October 1st, 2009 at 12:32 pm

As a fellow European, can I humbly ask you to please vote “No” and help give a voice to the 490+ million people who didn’t have a say in this.

The Lisbon Treaty lacks democratic legitimacy and the support of the people. I, for one, will not be bound by it until such time that there is a proper debate and vote across -all- of Europe. If the EU wishes to become the ‘United States of Europe’, then the people have a -right- to be a part of that decision.

I should point out that I am not fringe, left, right - just an average person who values democracy, freedom and the right to have a say in what affects me and my families lives.

“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” - Benjamin Franklin

I urge all of you to think of the long-term consequences of voting “Yes”.

Thank you! :-)

82.  Stylebitch (B)
October 1st, 2009 at 12:36 pm

Queen Winner! Queen Winner! Queen Winner! Yes, you’ve won a night of passion with Freddie Mercury! Yay!

83.  Tabby
October 1st, 2009 at 12:37 pm

Where are you from J Bloggs?!

84.  Stylebitch (B)
October 1st, 2009 at 12:38 pm

@ J BLOGGS “I urge all of you to think of the long-term consequences of voting “Yes”.”

Don’t just say that - explain! What are they? Facts now please.

85.  Louise
October 1st, 2009 at 12:41 pm

I agree with Dave and look who saying No. So far this week all I’VE seen is Declan Ganley tellin us to vote no, Brian Dobson held himself very well about the issue of minium wage and Declan Ganley was like yea but we unsure it could change in yrs to come.

We’ve talked about this a lot in European Business (in college) we’ve look at the treaty and dissus the issues like the minium wage and the army. Like for the last what 50 yrs the Eu has beeen involved in peace keepin mission. What u all think that just because we vote yes that the Eu is suddently going to go to war.

The Eu is the best thing for this country, they were the ones who made Women equal in the work place, mafe women get equal pay. They have helped us in countless other ways. It is easier for us to trade with other countries. We are all able to go over to Europe if we wanted to and get jobs.

I think we all have to work our way out of the recession and look at our own spending and the governments spending. But i think the Eu can help us with our issues. We are so much stronger with them then without.

Vote Yes btw

86.  Jack
October 1st, 2009 at 12:46 pm

Whatever country you’re from J Bloggs it’s your Constitution or lack of one that allows your government to ratify Lisbon through parliament -take it up with them - it’s ridiculous to expect us to abuse our referendum process so you have a direct vote on something that your law only requires your elected representative to vote on. This idea that a majority of people would vote against it is nonsense - Libertas ran hundreds of candidates and noone got in.
J Bloggs “I, for one, will not be bound by it until such time that there is a proper debate and vote across -all- of Europe” - are you suggesting you’re personally going to secede from your own state and become like the guy in Terminal?

87.  Dave
October 1st, 2009 at 12:47 pm

This is very funny and quite true…

http://whatsdaveminogue.blogspot.com/2009/10/10-reasons-to-vote-yeah-ok-to-lisbon.html

88.  pammy
October 1st, 2009 at 12:49 pm

wow guys can i commen there? i know im scottish and i have no right to critise your country but jeez it sounds so complicated!! i dont know jack shit about your Treaty and i wont pretend to know but when im voting for our stuff i usually just go with feels right for ME and my community and thereafter the wider community i.e the rest of Scotland and then Britian, thats the way i like to look at it.

89.  TinaDiva
October 1st, 2009 at 1:00 pm

Hahaha…. thats hilarious Dave! And yes, absolutely true!

90.  Tabby
October 1st, 2009 at 1:04 pm

Ha, that’s hilarious. And, yeah, true. J Bloggs I asked the question about where you were from because I feel the same as Jack on this. If you weren’t asked to vote, that sucks major balls, but it should hardly effect our decision on what’s best for our country. Nor would it help your situation. We wouldn’t be giving a voice to anyone, we would be taking ours away. And as for giving up “essential liberty”? We’re not promising them our first born, I wish people would stop being so dramatic about it for f*ck sake!!

91.  emmagination
October 1st, 2009 at 1:31 pm

Roisin, from now on when I’m dealing with customers who won’t pay their mortgage I’m just going to say “Just pay up you big madhead!” and I bet that’ll work a treat!

92.  Roisinanna
October 1st, 2009 at 1:48 pm

it’s really versatile. Though mind how you use it..big madheads don’t like being called big madheads..

93.  Stylebitch (B)
October 1st, 2009 at 1:53 pm

..they’re mad like that.

94.  Roisinanna
October 1st, 2009 at 2:03 pm

it’s in the title..

95.  Gina
October 1st, 2009 at 2:49 pm

I will not be bullied into voting yes.
If life was a Leonna Lewis song!!
What kind of comeback is that??
Will voting YES cure the terminal illness get a grip this is a debate not a slagging match

Im going to paint a hypothetical scenario here and if anyone can tell me the truth as to what will happen us a country then I WILL VOTE YES.
Say for talk sake Ireland votes YES and then 10yrs down the line the Dutch colonies in south america known as the ABC countries(Aruba, Bonaire and curasao) decide that they no longer want to be dutch and with the help of south america they declare war on Holland. What will happen if there is a vote to help them financially and with military aid and we as a nation say no because we cant spare the money and we want to keep our neutrality. What happens then will Europe still want us and help us or will we be forced to take another vote untill we agree to help. If I am guaranteed that this wont happen then I will be a happy woman. Please dont belittle me and slag me off Im genuinely concerned about our country but I also think the recession is being used to scare the shit out of people who are really struggling.
Just remember we are already a part of the EU and wont be thrown out as some people believe. Dont spout Ganley, Cowen, Corr, the edge, Sinn Fein, the Catholic church or anyone else at me, I dont think who ever is in power makes a difference as I have said this is all my beliefs i read both arguements and laugh at the points on BOTH sides. COULD SOMEONE PLEASE answer that question as I cant see into the future and dont know how

96.  emmagination
October 1st, 2009 at 2:56 pm

Gina, I can see your concern but none of us can see into the future. As someone has stated before

“States would be obliged to aid another member state which is the victim of armed aggression, in accordance with the UN Charter, BUT THIS MUST NOT COMPROMISE THE CHARACTER OF CERTAIN STATES. IT WOULD BE A MATTER FOR EACH MEMBER STATE TO DECIDE WHETHER TO PARTICIPATE IN THE EUROPEAN DEFENCE AGENCY (EDA), and to decide on its own level of military spending”.

Obviously your vote is your own and I’m not going to try to make you vote a certain way, you’ve satisfied yourself that you want to vote no, fair enough.

97.  Dave
October 1st, 2009 at 2:57 pm

I guarantee that won’t happen. Will you vote yes?

98.  Gina
October 1st, 2009 at 3:04 pm

I have read all that Emma I understand it but it still doesnt answer the question How will the EU feel if we vote no to helping another member?

Dave I read your Blog I love people that have a good sense of humour your a good one :D

99.  Jack
October 1st, 2009 at 3:08 pm

That scenario involving ABC and South America attacking Europe is so so bizarre that I don’t quite know how to respond - if you consider that that’s your point proven then so be it. One vote can’t possibly be worth trying to debate with someone who worries about things like that.

100.  emmagination
October 1st, 2009 at 3:10 pm

I really hope this doesn’t come across as smart Gina, but I don’t expect the EU to “feel” anything if we decide to excercise our neutrality in the event of a war. Otherwise why put a clause such as the above in the treaty?

101.  Gina
October 1st, 2009 at 3:13 pm

Its hypothetical !!!! are you going to nit pick everything I say I didnt say they were going to attack Europe !! HOLLAND OWNS THEM, Countries have been known to claim back their independance be it politically or through war ie.China, Scotland, Wales, India, Zimbabwe, South Africa need I go on. Why cant anyone tell me how secure will be if something like that happens

102.  Gina
October 1st, 2009 at 3:15 pm

Its not smart at all Emma thanks at least your are trying to help me.

103.  emmagination
October 1st, 2009 at 3:16 pm

Gina, the most anyone can do is quote the text about a country determining it’s own level of military spending and our option to exercise our neutrality. I don’t see how any of us can guarantee anything more than that. Except Dave - if we end up in a war it’s all on him! :)

104.  JANICE G
October 1st, 2009 at 3:16 pm

SEEMS TO ME GINA THAT NO1 KNOWS…..

105.  Dave
October 1st, 2009 at 3:22 pm

That wasn’t my blog by the way. Twas another Dave. On a serious note though, people can only make guarantees about things that are in the treaty. We have the right under the treay to remain neutral. Speculating about whether we might be bullied into a war by Europe has nothin to do with the treaty. In my opinion if we managed to stay neutral during WW2, it’s unlikely we’d be bullied into the kind of conflict you’ve imagined. But whether we would or not has nothing to do with the Lisbon Treaty.

106.  Roisinanna
October 1st, 2009 at 3:22 pm

2 things..
Andy C..i’m selling drugs, what do you want?
Who made the if life was a leona Lewis song comment?? I can’t find it…
Gina..you’ve done your research and you’ve made your decision based on that and while I might not agree with it I commend you.
(I know that was actually 3 things but I’m selling drugs and a bit ourravit to be honest)

107.  Tabby
October 1st, 2009 at 3:25 pm

Gina, I respect the fact that you’ve made the effort to research this and have strong views on it. But it honestly seems madness to me to be scared about people’s opinion about a situation that MIGHT occur IF we decide to NOT do something in a situation that will probably NEVER happen. How on earth is that logical?! We don’t have to go to war if we don’t want to, end of story. After that who cares what anyone thinks? You’re not worried about what they’ll think if we just don’t sign the treaty, why worry bout this? There’s more chance of our own little simmering war breaking out again than us having to vote as to whether we help the Dutch!

108.  Gina
October 1st, 2009 at 3:43 pm

THat was only one Hypothetical scenario
there are loads of other issues the scare me, But thanks for finally seeing that im researching my own views and not someone elses :) Its the voting system that worries me its all about the vote and the treaty states that all countries have to agree before something is passed this will go for all the future EU decisions from neutrality, Corporate tax, wages, health, childcare laws etc. these are all good things indeed but I just want to be secure before I take a leap of faith into the unknown. I know we wont have to go to war if we dont want to, I know we wont have to change our corporate tax laws if we dont want to. I know we have a choice, What I dont know is what will the EU do if we dont like some of their ways of thinking and we throw a spanner in their works by voting against it. When make big decisions we have to weigh up the pros and cons and the what ifs and whens, even a bank makes decisions on what ifs, as in what if you cant pay your mortgage.
I dont see how we will be fecked as a country if we vote no and I cant see any safeguards for the future if we vote yes.

109.  Tabby
October 1st, 2009 at 4:12 pm

Gina, it’s not a case of finally seeing anything. And unfortunately it’s not a case of researching anyone’s ‘views’….it’s only facts I’m concerned about. And I believe that some of the things you’ve been saying are based on untruths.
I don’t quite understand your concerns about the voting system. You say everyone has to agree before anything happens. What’s the problem with that exactly?
And I’m sure you’ll credit me enough to realise that I’ve thoroughly researched and thought out my decision about it and I too have thought about the ‘what ifs’.
As for safeguards, what safeguards do you have if you vote no?
I mean, clearly you’re going to vote no and I don’t think anyone here who is expressing a Yes preference is hoping to sway anyone who has decided against it (although that would be great) but remember that a lot of people reading this won’t have made up their minds and are sitting there at google frantically trying to decide what to do. That’s why I think it’s so important for us to get the facts out there and discount the rubbish that’s flying around and scaring people in to voting no. If after all the BS is cleared up you and anyone else still feels no is right, then at least it’s a proper no vote and not a misinformed one. I’m happy enough with that.

110.  JANICE G
October 1st, 2009 at 4:28 pm

remember that a lot of people reading this won’t have made up their minds and are sitting there at google frantically trying to decide what to do.

THATS ME…….

111.  Gem
October 1st, 2009 at 4:31 pm

I’ve only read half these comments - I have to come back to read the rest. I’m so undecided about what to vote, I see both arguements but I’m worried about believing the bullshit - vote no, europe was created by nazi’s or vote yes for jobs. Like wtf have nazi’s got to do with the treaty and where are these jobs going to come from.

Off point these joke posters are so funny there is another one that says vote no we don’t want our children to grow up dutch and a photo of a hooker….

112.  Gem
October 1st, 2009 at 4:31 pm

thats me too!

113.  JANICE G
October 1st, 2009 at 4:42 pm

WOT… A DUTCH HOOKER????

HEHEHEHE I JOKE, I JOKE :-)

114.  Gina
October 1st, 2009 at 5:16 pm

Well tomorrows outcome will decide our future with or without the bullshit. Lets hope that whatever the outcome it will be a good one for Ireland in the future thats all we can do. Tabby no one really knows who the bullshitters are, we are just all blaming the other, Respect to you also but I think we should agree to disagree, you and I alone wont sway Europe in any way but at least by sharing our views we may have helped or confused others depending how you look at it.

Gem your comment made me laugh. I had my first son in Holland and took him home for that very reason :P with my english husband of french hungarian decent back to Ireland (oh wait I’m a xenophobe) :P
It was really because back then Ireland HAD better school and Justice systems, but as my starting point mentioned the government let them go while they concentrated on Europe. Anyway this debate is ending for me folks thanks for looking and sharing I’m off to ask Simon Cowell to let Leonna Lewis re release Que Sera, Sera (Whatever Will Be, Will Be)
If only life was a Leonna Lewis song :D

115.  Stylebitch (B)
October 1st, 2009 at 5:30 pm

All I will say is that please peoples, when considering to vote yes or no tomorrow, remember that this is NOT a vote against our goverment. It is not about minimum wage, abortion, war or any of the stuff the No campaigners have been spouting about.

Just read Dave Minogue’s blog, as Dave Coffey linked to above…it’s irreverent but perfectly concise!
http://whatsdaveminogue.blogspot.com/2009/10/10-reasons-to-vote-yeah-ok-to-lisbon.html

I wonder if moratoriums apply to blogs…..:)

116.  Stylebitch (B)
October 1st, 2009 at 5:58 pm

..and if the yes vote wins, I swear I’m going to start a ‘Dave Minogue won the Treaty’ campaign, and get him a cake made in the shape of a treaty. A treaty treat, if you will.

117.  roisincurtis
October 1st, 2009 at 6:03 pm

I suppose this is a bad time to mention I voted for Sinn Fein in the last election? :)

118.  Gem
October 1st, 2009 at 6:21 pm

hahahaha roisin your class!

119.  Tabby
October 1st, 2009 at 6:36 pm

Mother of jayzis……

120.  ali
October 1st, 2009 at 6:40 pm

(L) and (B) fair play to yis for setting up this forum.

I’m glad we get to vote a second time, purely because this time around, people are actually engaging in debates, and seem to be trying to figure out for themselves how they are going to vote.

Whatever you vote tomorrow, make sure you turn up at your polling station and practice your constitutional right…..

121.  sinead
October 1st, 2009 at 10:46 pm

lads dont listen to any politicians - regardless of what political party ye follow. http://www.lisbontreaty.ie and make an impartial position. Im sure this has already been mentioned.

And no Im not been ‘’scaremongered” into voting yes by the govt, I can make up my own mind thank you very much! Voting yes keeps us at the heart of the EU and will hopefully attract foreign investors and job creation in the future when the economy stabalises. And Ali youre dead right, I think people voted the last time without being properly informed. I think the most important thing this time round is to make a clear and informed decision

122.  La Betsy
October 1st, 2009 at 10:47 pm

I would urge EVERYONE to make a decision based on the facts and NOT based on the political parties backing either campaign. DO NOT vote YES just because Sinn Fein are saying vote No and DO NOT vote NO just to spite our current government.

Read as much about this treaty as you possibly can by tomorrow and then make an informed, INDEPENDANT vote.

123.  sinead
October 1st, 2009 at 10:47 pm

edit spelling:

”an impartial decision”

124.  La Betsy
October 1st, 2009 at 10:48 pm

*INDEPENDENT

125.  sinead
October 1st, 2009 at 11:23 pm

Here Here La Betsy!

Or is that ”hear hear”?
did we have this conversation before!?
Yes canvasers called to my house tonight with leaflets!! I thought that all had to stop today and let people decide for themselves. Even now Im here watching Vincent Browne on tv3 and he said that he wouldnt be making reference to it tonight

126.  Stylebitch (B)
October 2nd, 2009 at 1:08 am

Yeah there’s a moratorium now (I just love that word)…no broadcasting debates, but you can provide information…but leaflets?! Don’t think so…

127.  JANICE G
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:09 am

WELL IT’S “D” DAY, AND STILL UNDECIDED, I NEED A KICK UP THE ARSE HAHA!!!

I FEEL LIKE MY VOTE IS SWAYIN YES AS ME OTHER HALF IS VOTIN NO, AND WE’VE GOT INTO PLENTY ARGUMENTS OVER LAST FEW DAYS OVER IT HAHA!! (NEVER MIND WHO DID THE WASHIN UP)
WE’RE STILL BOTH TRYIN TO UNDERSTAND IT FULLY, HE SAYS HE DOES, BUT I DON’T RECKON HE DOES, I THINK HIS JUDGEMENT HAS BEEN CLOUDY BY ALL THOSE STUPID CAMPAIGN POSTER’S…..

HAS UR ONE MCALEESE OR HOW-EVER YE SPELL HER NAME, HAS SHE COME OUT AND SAID WHICH WAY SHE RECKONS WE SHUD VOTE….

NOW I’LL ADMIT I’M NOT A MASSIVE NEWS WATCHER, AND ALL THOSE DEBATE PROGRAMME THINGYS…
BUT I’VE NOT ACTUALLY SEEN COWAN OUT THERE NEITHER…
LIKE YEAH THIS WK I’VE SEEN HIM PARADE AROUND WEARIN A STICKER, OR STANDIN IN FRONT OF A YES SIGN….

BUT FOR A GOVERNMENT THAT WANT’S THIS IS, IN MY OPINION HE’S PRETTY QUITE BOUT IT…..

128.  Amy
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:29 am

the update on the site says:
Ireland, and all other Member States, will keep a Commissioner

Ireland will remain in control of its own tax rates

Irish neutrality will not be affected – no conscription, no defence alliances

Ireland retains control of sensitive ethical issues such as abortion

Workers’ rights and public services are valued and protected in Ireland and across the EU

I hope this answers ppls worries :) They cant go changing anything, once it is written and agreed on it cannot be amended!

129.  Stylebitch (L)
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:11 am

Whatever you decide, it’s really important that we all get out and vote! If you’re still not sure, read the facts and go with your gut.

ROCK THAT VOTE!!!!!

130.  Stylebitch (L)
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:47 pm

Have you all voted yet? I’m flying around to do it shortyl!

131.  JANICE G
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:52 pm

NO NOT YET, I’M GONNA LEAVE IT TILL BOUT 9.45 STANDIN IN BOOTH AND WAIT FOR TO HIT ME….
WAIT TILL THEIR KICKIN ME OUT, THEN PICK SUMMIT OUTTA PANIC HAHA!!

ONLY WAY I CAN SAY FAIR HAHA!!

132.  louise
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:27 pm

Brian Cowan was on the a debate this week about the treaty. Didn’t get to watch it as was going out.

going up to vote YES now

133.  La Betsy
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:33 pm

On my way to do it now!!!

134.  Stylebitch (L)
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:52 pm

Done! :)

135.  JANICE G
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:11 pm

WELL I DID WOT I SAID I’D DO HAHA
I HAD TO RUSH TO THE SCHOOL….
GOT THERE WIT 2 MINS TO SPEAR….

I THOUGHT I DIDN’T WANT TO VOTE AND DECIDED AT 9.55 THAT I DID, AND MADE MY MIND UP,
SO JUMPED IN CAR AND FLEW DOWN THE ROAD…..

DONE NOW, NO TURNIN BACK…..

136.  emmagination1
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:14 pm

I voted earlier, one yes from me! Janice what did you end up deciding if you don’t mind me asking?

137.  Stylebitch (L)
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:21 pm

I’m dying to know too. Don’t say if you don’t want to!!
(I was a yes by the way)

138.  louise
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:49 pm

I was Yes too

139.  roisincurtis
October 3rd, 2009 at 12:18 am

I was a NO! Saw a wee old man who could hardly walk being escourted into voting office and it brought a lump to my throat. So many lazy sods who don’t vote and yet he obviously made so much effort to get his vote in. Bless!

140.  emmagination1
October 3rd, 2009 at 12:25 am

Ah god! Bless his little heart!

141.  Sandra
October 3rd, 2009 at 12:46 am

i voted no

142.  Gina
October 3rd, 2009 at 11:24 am

I was no vote :D and I discovered most of my friends and family were no votes too

143.  Stylebitch (L)
October 3rd, 2009 at 12:39 pm

Looks like Yes is going to take it by nearly two to one.

144.  Louise
October 3rd, 2009 at 3:28 pm

I seen a man who i know lives 6 miles away from poll office walk the whole way up to poll office and he was in his late 70’s. Just makes u realise how important it is to vote and esp for women.

145.  Stylebitch (L)
October 3rd, 2009 at 4:15 pm

My Grandmother was too sick to go out and vote yesterday, she was raging! But I know someone else who hasn’t voted in years because she lives in Dublin and is registered at home…and she isn’t even from THAT far outside Dublin. Just goes to show ye!!

146.  Gina
October 3rd, 2009 at 10:53 pm

Well done the Yes vote I dont care its me birthday and I’m drunk as a fool and im emailing Mr. man in charge to see if he can arrange a best of 3 cos its one to the no and one to the yes we need the decider :D lets have a penalty shoot out who is with me ????

147.  Sandra
October 3rd, 2009 at 11:26 pm

meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee gina best of 33333333

148.  Áine
October 4th, 2009 at 9:08 pm

Ladies can I ask, out of curiosity why everybody voted yes/no?

149.  Gina
October 4th, 2009 at 9:26 pm

Aine I was drunk and needed the money :D oh wait thats a different forum topic…… read up for mine I cant go through it all again im too tired

150.  becky
October 4th, 2009 at 10:14 pm

best of three all the way hahaha

151.  Sandra
October 4th, 2009 at 11:27 pm

i’m, drunk nowq .com

152.  Stylebitch (L)
October 4th, 2009 at 11:58 pm

Ha ha, I love drunk Sandra!

153.  Sandra
October 5th, 2009 at 12:02 am

waatcch out she migt try rob condom pff you

154.  Gina
October 5th, 2009 at 12:34 am

YAY this has beaten the Oscars at least we have a new lead topic to beat

155.  Sandra
October 5th, 2009 at 12:36 am

f**k the osdars

156.  Jacquie
October 5th, 2009 at 12:48 am

hahaha, drunk sandra is so much fun! ask her what she did with the leaves today??!! hahahahahaha hilarious!! :)

157.  Sandra
October 5th, 2009 at 12:49 am

siniiiiittttaaaaa

158.  Sandra
October 5th, 2009 at 12:55 am

sure we built this city on rock and or roll who cares anyways

159.  Stylebitch (B)
October 5th, 2009 at 2:05 am

Ah I heart drunk Sandy!

160.  Gina
June 26th, 2010 at 1:55 am

Do you all believe me now eh eh look at what the eu made us do, give the greeks millions while all around us is crumbling never mind eh heres to out euro hand out

161.  roisin
June 26th, 2010 at 2:52 am

LOL @ Gina :) Still waiting to see all these benefits they promised us??? I was at a rally earlier for the Louth Hospital and of course Minister Ahern hadn’t the balls to turn up. Sinn Fein will once again be getting my vote as soon as we get rid of those good for nothing lazy lying bastards that are up in the Dail at present.

One Trackback/Ping

  1. coal delivery dublin    Oct 06 2011 / 12am:

    coal suppliers dublin…

    [...]The Stylebitches » Blog Archive » LISBON 2: YES OR NO?![...]…

 

Leave a reply

Name (*)
Mail (will not be published) (*)
URI
Comment